I thought I'd spin this off into a separate thread.

Tier 1:

Banshees - they are absolutely useful as is, but with Curse 3, they completely throw all other Curse units out of whack. The only way they don't make Harpies obsolete would require them to cost at least 50% more than Harpies, despite being a T1 unit. So, are they still useful as Curse 2? Undead for sure.

Gnomes - way undercosted compared to Dwarf Infantry. They fight as well as Dwarves, are as fast as Barbarians, have pathfinding and scout view...
The core design to keep here is a 3hp unit with Banding. Something in between Dwarf Infantry and Dwarven Runners.

Halfling Braves - dirt cheap, super-fast, scouting, pathfinding... I can see them as light infantry with pathfinding, and maybe some warding. But the cost still needs to be higher.

Rovers - I absolutely see the niche for a cheap Missile 1 skirmisher. Str 2 without any terrain bonus, 1 hp, move 20.

Straw Golems - I like the idea of a cheap T1 trample unit. 1hp, to make them a glass cannon similar to the Sasquatch.

Sylphs - a flying scout with good hp. Imp without Lightning. There's room here for a special, I'd also give them Group Warding, like Scouts. Maybe make them a T2 unit with Morale +1. Being an Elemental means they classify as Demon.

Vampire Bats - they need to be a bit slower than regular Giant Bats, maybe with poorer View too. A fast, flying assassin is nice, but I have made Group Warding fairly accessible. Maybe give them Str 2?

Gnomes - Fantastic units with many purposes and good at all. They should probably be more expensive. I don't use it now because my opponents use it. I often try to pick other units and lords if it's worth it.
Banshees - the best curse unit in the game. I usually have them in Army Set but I don't always use them. If you change curse to 2 i will probably stop using it.
Halfling Braves - my opponent use it always. I don't have space for such units, or I place Goblins to stand out.
Rovers - archery 1 and a weak unit. Rather useless.
Straw Golems - slow and weak. Opponents used when I took Gnomes. Rather useless.
Sylphs - interesting flying scout with 3 hits. Can be useful.
Vampire Bats - useless.

Banshee: I also love Banshees and like Anomander likely would stop using if they went to curse 2. So that means they need to remain at curse 3. The only way to not invalidate Harpies would be to remove their Flying AND lower movement to 20 AND drop view to 1. Still makes them useful for suicide missions removing blessing but they would no longer be able to fly and move 24 or scout. That might be enough to keep Harpies valid.

Gnomes: I love Gnomes. You can win games purely on them + Elf Calv with their 5/3 values as they can rapidly move over the map and raze cities that have only a few defenders in them (most cities). I think in the rework document I had a plan (or there was at least a discussion) to make them have Lightning +2 similar to Imps. But yes, you need to do something about the rest to bring them in line (maybe 2 hits, likely remove Forest movement etc).

Halfling Braves: I don't use them but like Anomander, I know players who did because of the 28 moves. This goes back to what I posted in the other thread about adjusting overall movement. No 1 turn unit needs to move 28 or if it does, it needs to cost a TON (over 200).

Rovers: If I don't use Gnomes I use these guys especially if I know my opponent uses lots of flying units. Rovers are basically what Scouts should have been in DLR. Probably fine as they are.

Straw Golems: Rarely used but the idea is interesting. Probably need to move 18 to go with that 3/1 stat and not cost more than 80.

Sylphs: Never seen them used. Did you know you can put 'invisibility' on a unit and it will be invisible? One of the scenario maps (Divine Right) did this with the Sylph unit and changed the stats to 2/1 so it wasn't very strong. Such a unit might be interesting to have as a flying invisible scout (adjust view to 4, cost to 75).

Vampire Bats: I've seen them used as a suicide unit. But they should definitely not have much view or fly faster than regular bats. So 3 view, 22 moves (I'd make regular bats move 22 as well) and only cost 50.

KGB

The most obvious balancing consequence to keeping Banshees at Curse 3 would be to upgrade all the other Curse units.

Harpies: Curse 5, and they need to move faster than Banshees. 24 for them, 20 for the Banshees?
Wights: Curse 4
Spectres: Curse 8
Undead Dragons: Curse 6

That looks feasible to me, or do you think it's too inflationary? I actually like that Curse (3),4,6,8 all result in a 96% chance in "optimal" stacks, unless you include an additional unit.

KGB wrote:


Do you know if units have a chance to detect invisible stacks, similar to discovering hidden ruins? If so, I could see having an invisible scout. But if the only way to detect them is to run into them, or sweep the area for cursor changes, I'd rather not include invisibility on units.

Those curse numbers sound good (3,4,6, and I also like that they all reach 96%.

Units can not discover invisible units like they can ruins. However there is a 3rd way to find them and that's via a quest (an easy quest for a specific unit type or the medium quest that kills X number of units).

I understand if you don't want to have an invisible scout. Just trying for another outside the box solution for the 'too many duplicate units' problem.

KGB